{"id":257,"date":"2020-02-18T15:08:21","date_gmt":"2020-01-31T11:12:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dev.philippthesen.de\/das-design-hat-die-verantwortung-2\/"},"modified":"2021-01-18T10:16:45","modified_gmt":"2021-01-18T10:16:45","slug":"a-different-way-of-thinking","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/en\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/","title":{"rendered":"A Different Way of Thinking"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":296,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[5],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\nA Different Way of Thinking – Philipp Thesen<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Personal Website von Philipp Thesen: Designer, Strategieberater und Professor f\u00fcr Mensch-System-Interaktion\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A Different Way of Thinking – Philipp Thesen\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Personal Website von Philipp Thesen: Designer, Strategieberater und Professor f\u00fcr Mensch-System-Interaktion\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Philipp Thesen\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2020-01-31T11:12:16+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-01-18T10:16:45+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3-1.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1348\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"899\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/\",\"name\":\"A Different Way of Thinking – Philipp Thesen\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2020-01-31T11:12:16+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-01-18T10:16:45+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/#\/schema\/person\/cd78bcfa114804d1321cee5335b3334a\"},\"description\":\"Personal Website von Philipp Thesen: Designer, Strategieberater und Professor f\u00fcr Mensch-System-Interaktion\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/a-different-way-of-thinking\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Startseite\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Eine andere Denke\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.philippthesen.de\/\",\"name\":\"Philipp Thesen\",\"description\":\"Personal website of Philipp Thesen. 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Does nationality actually still play any role at all in the digital era? The designreport discusses these and other questions with Christian Hanke, creative director at Edenspiekermann, and Philipp Thesen, head of design at Deutsche Telekom.<\/h1>\",\r\n \"align\": \"middle\",\r\n \"row\": 1,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 4\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-Light-WebM;\\\">I think everybody has an idea of what German product design is. You immediately think of classic brands like Braun or BMW. We\u2019re here at a company that mainly offers services. Philipp, are Telekom\u2019s products actually even perceived as German in other countries?<br \/><br \/><\/span><\/span><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Philipp Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>It varies a lot. Internationally speaking, people have very positive associations with German design. Several years ago when we were defining the design language of the Telekom products and our entire digital experience, the question came up as to whether there are any specifically German aspects. Our company sells its products in 30 countries, but on the other hand our German origins are part of our brand identity. I\u2019ve always been interested in German design and I have to admit that, for a long time, I thought the kind of functionalism that came out of the Ulm School of Design was the global norm. But studying abroad made me realise that isn\u2019t the case everywhere. There are certain things international designers value as German attributes: a fundamentally systematic approach, a sustainability mindset and an aspiration to quality that isn\u2019t seen as luxury. But because of the Ulm School of Design\u2019s international influence, there\u2019s definitely something universal about those things too.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Christian Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>When we opened our Los Angeles office in 2015, the fact that we\u2019re a European agency, or more specifically a German one, was an important sales argument \u2013 like a quality label. Our founder Erik Spiekermann, who represents precisely those classic attributes, is very wellknown over there, and that was a big help. Thesen: On the other hand there are plenty of high-profile designers from Germany who disappear behind their work; that\u2019s not the case in a country like Italy or France.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>On the other hand, there are many distinguished designers from Germany who disappear behind their work, unlike in Italy or France, for example.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke: <\/span>Do you think that\u2019s typically German?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>I don\u2019t know, but I studied in Milan and Helsinki. In Italy, designers like to foster a personality cult to some extent. And although people in Scandinavia tend to keep a very low profile, designer branding plays a more important role than it does here. Both those countries have strong design companies with artisanal roots. In Germany, design is more likely to have its breeding grounds in industry, and chief design officers like Gorden Wagener of Mercedes-Benz have only recently started to have a public presence. Even so, German designers are often still invisible ghosts: the things they create are enjoyed by people all over the world, but their authorship tends to remain a mystery.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>Philipp, how have the design qualities that you identified as typically German been translated into Telekom\u2019s digital products? Can that kind of thing be expressed in a concrete way?<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 2,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 500\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 3,\r\n \"col\": 4,\r\n \"colspan\": 4,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 4,\r\n \"relid\": 3716,\r\n \"attid\": 439,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-768x1024.jpg\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-512x683.jpg\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-265x353.jpg\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 813,\r\n \"h\": 1084,\r\n \"ar\": 1.3333333333333333,\r\n \"alt\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>We took a very functional approach right from the outset. The realisation that the digital experience mainly concerns innovations in hardware, software and services has only really caught on over the last few years \u2013 it\u2019s important to remember that. Prior to that, \u201cdigital\u201d mainly meant websites and apps, it was all about entertainment. And the functional aspect was often merely expressed in the form of functionalistic references, like the interfaces of the early Apple products: although their style was reminiscent of Dieter Rams, they weren\u2019t designed in the same spirit at all.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>The calculator by Dietrich Lubs is the classic example: its look was simply copied ... Surely that\u2019s got something to do with the fact that digital products are inherently less tangible than hardware products, wouldn\u2019t you say?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Do you really think so? I think it\u2019s just that it took us a few years to learn what a digital look and feel is. We designers were still pretty clumsy to start with. It took time to understand just how important things like transitions and performance or language and tonality really are for a digital product experience.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>That\u2019s exactly what I mean. The tendency to reference earlier designs resulted from a certain degree of helplessness.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Or to put it another way, from the necessity to get the user to make the connection. That\u2019s how icons like the floppy disk as a symbol for \u201csave\u201d came about, or the use of imitation leather in the calendar app for that matter. None of that\u2019s necessary anymore and we can be more mature in how we design, thank God!<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>The digital sphere is a totally new realm of experience \u2013 in a literal sense too. It\u2019s no coincidence that most digital applications tended to be created by industrial designers to start with. Ten years ago, we mainly employed industrial designers too: they think more three-dimensionally, which enables them to negotiate navigation structures better. Graphic designers found that difficult to start with; they concentrated more on the interface.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>To some extent, the importance of design classics can be attributed to insecurity too: when consumers aren\u2019t sure what\u2019s good, they tend to fall back on classics. Does that apply to the digital sphere too? Can tried-and-tested designs become classics?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>No, it\u2019s a different way of thinking. Obviously there are metaphors or a certain aesthetic that reflect the corresponding zeitgeist. Take Wikipedia, for instance: on the whole, it will probably stay just the way it is for ever. But does that make it a design classic? Or do sites like that belong in the museum?<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>No \u2013 with the possible exception of Spiegel Online\u2019s first news site! (Laughter) But that\u2019s precisely the point: digitality fundamentally changes a designer\u2019s relationship to their work and, by extension, their self-image. For a long time, designers dreamed of creating things that would end up in the museum and outlive them as icons for posterity. That\u2019s simply not possible in the case of products that are relaunched what feels like 600 times a day on the basis of user research and iteration. Which isn\u2019t to say that certain digital applications don\u2019t deserve to be considered outstanding in the context of their time.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>The first iPhone OS is one such time capsule!<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>Yes, or important paradigm shifts like Apple\u2019s Lisa \u2013 the birth of the graphical user interface! But nobody would want to fall back on that kind of thing just because they feel insecure \u2013 it\u2019s not the same as buying an Eames Chair because you can\u2019t go wrong with it. Perhaps digital design will follow in the footsteps of the invisible industrial designer.<br \/>.<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 4,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 5\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"align\": \"bottom\",\r\n \"row\": 5,\r\n \"col\": 2,\r\n \"colspan\": 8,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 2,\r\n \"relid\": 3717,\r\n \"attid\": 440,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"_1280\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-1280x854.jpg\",\r\n \"_1024\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-1024x683.jpg\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-768x512.jpg\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-512x341.jpg\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-265x177.jpg\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 1348,\r\n \"h\": 899,\r\n \"ar\": 0.6669139465875371,\r\n \"alt\": \"\",\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>I think it\u2019s slightly different in digital editorial design because it\u2019s OK to be more expressive when there\u2019s a narrative involved. But it\u2019s nonsense to talk about something like \u201cexperimental navigation\u201d in connection with digital products. It\u2019s the kind of thing you might read in an undergraduate dissertation, but otherwise you can\u2019t help wondering whether there\u2019s actually a niche for it! (Laughter)<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:\u00a0<\/span>Well then, would you say there are certain design principles that have acquired classic-like status in the digital sphere?<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Yes, definitely. There are some very powerful conventions. I realise that when my kids try to swipe printed pictures away with their index finger or build the hotword for activating Alexa into their jokes. The swipe gesture was created for the Palm OS and, in the form of \u201cswipe to unlock\u201d, was even considered a brand-defining pattern for iOS \u2013 until a new technology came along and Apple users got out of the habit. That\u2019s how the native platforms, successful products and major design systems like Google\u2019s Material Design manage to keep playing such an influential role in digital design.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>And that will continue, lots of new things will emerge. There\u2019ll be new forms of interaction that will become increasingly important for the user experience, things like language, gestures, predictive interfaces. And classics will establish themselves in those areas too.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>In such a fast-moving field as this, can you imagine anybody nailing 10 theses to the door the same way Dieter Rams did when he defined good design in 10 principles?<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>But those principles don\u2019t actually refer to a specific area of design!<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>They\u2019re more about a professional ethos, an attitude.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>And a lot of things about them are very German. Before we met today, I asked a few non-German colleagues about their idea of German design in the hope of getting some answers that go beyond the usual clich\u00e9s.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>Although clich\u00e9s are actually only condensed information ...<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke (<\/span><b>laughs<\/b><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">):\u00a0<\/span>Precisely! According to a colleague from Slovenia, Germanness is scheduled fun. But in a good way! Another colleague said being an artist and engineer rolled into one is a typically German trait. One of our agency\u2019s guiding principles expresses a similar sentiment: we want to make things that are important, useful and attractive \u2013 but never just useful and never just attractive.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:\u00a0<\/span>But even so, the design processes involved in creating a digital product or service aren\u2019t the same as in an area like classic product design. A chair doesn\u2019t get updated six months down the line; it\u2019s a finalised product.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>But it could be a different story if you think about the possibilities of technologies like 3D printing. Digitisation is making the product world more complex and more individual. That\u2019s why the whole topic of design methods and processes, which is rooted in the technology boom of the 1960s, is so topical again right now.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>When we\u2019re comparing print and online journalism, we talk about finite and infinite products. Print journalists think in terms of deadlines, whereas for their online colleagues the real work actually only starts after publication \u2013 when other people get involved and want to have their say, or when a news situation changes or a story develops. That calls for a totally different kind of design.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>Working in such an open-ended way requires a drastic change of thinking on the part of product designers.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>It\u2019s a question of the motivation that drives their work. There are explorative designers who want to unlock the world and others who want to define what the world should be like. Those are the two archetypes I keep running into, anyway. (Laughter)<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Designreport: <\/span>A kind of \u201cI know what\u2019s good for you\u201d attitude is another thing that\u2019s often considered typically German. How does that play out in UX design?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Authoritarian design? It doesn\u2019t work in that context, or it\u2019s simply seen as bad design. .<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>In UX design, the focus is on the user. Designers are more like moderators between the real world and the technology. You don\u2019t get far with an authoritarian approach.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>But when it comes to service design, Germany is considered something of a late developer \u2013 how does that fit in with what you\u2019ve been saying?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>I don\u2019t see Germany as a service wilderness at all. I know quite a few people in other parts of Europe who use the Deutsche Bahn app to look for train connections in their own country \u2013 simply because it\u2019s so reliable. And there are plenty of other examples of excellent service design from Germany.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>I think that perception has a lot to do with the very German need to criticise everything. Whenever we change a digital product with lots of German users, their first reaction is always to complain. But it\u2019s often a very different story in countries like Switzerland or the US.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>Calling Germany a service wilderness is a habit that dates from the 1990s.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>The term\u2019s got a lot to do with the civil-service-like structures that were common back then. A lot of companies had monopolies and didn\u2019t have to vie with competitors the way they do nowadays. It\u2019s much more interesting to ask what we can learn from that attitude. Are there any conclusions that can be drawn? Does the feedback help improve your offerings? Companies could change a lot of things for the better just by being more consistent about involving the people who are in contact with their product users in the development processes. Participation is vital: if we took to designing things with people instead of over their heads, we could lay the idea of Germany being a service wilderness to rest.<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 6,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 3719\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5.png\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 7,\r\n \"col\": 4,\r\n \"colspan\": 4,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 5,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 5,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 4,\r\n \"relid\": 325,\r\n \"attid\": 265,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5.png\",\r\n \"_1920\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1920x1402.png\",\r\n \"_1280\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1280x934.png\",\r\n \"_1024\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1024x748.png\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-768x561.png\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-512x374.png\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-265x193.png\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 2000,\r\n \"h\": 1460,\r\n \"ar\": 0.73,\r\n \"alt\": \"\",\r\n \"caption\": \"<p class=\\\"_Caption\\\"><span style=\\\"color: #e8e8e8;\\\"><span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-Medium-WebM;\\\"><br \/>Krautter, Martin:<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-MediumItalic-WebM;\\\">Another way of thinking<br \/><\/span><\/span><span style=\\\"color: #e8e8e8;\\\">designreport, Issue 6\/2017 (S. 48 \u2013 52)<\/span><\/p>\",\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> The design discipline needs to play a much bigger role when it comes to mediating between humans, technology and business interests. That means taking an interdisciplinary stance and having a prolific, multifaceted cultural knowledge. But the German perspective soon turns out to have a pretty limited horizon.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Designreport:<\/span> Let\u2019s talk about design thinking: how compatible is its methodology with German corporate cultures?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> We\u2019ve had very different experiences across various sectors and markets. I once had a kind of eureka moment when somebody reminded me of Maslow and his hierarchy of needs in this context. Self-actualisation only comesat the very tip of the pyramid. That means as long as people\u2019s \u201cdeficiency needs\u201d aren\u2019t met, as long as they don\u2019t know how safe their job is or what role they play within the organisation, or if they\u2019ve never experienced what it feels like to achieve something together with their colleagues, they won\u2019t be able to give any thought to innovations. Then there\u2019s absolutely no point in holding innovation workshops and handing out colourful post-its for people to scribble their ideas on. It just won\u2019t work.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Designreport:<\/span> Fair enough, but that\u2019s not a specifically German problem. Or is it perhaps a problem for the SME sector, which is particularly strong in Germany?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> It\u2019s more a question of how professionally a company approaches the topic of innovation and how influential design is within an organisation. It\u2019s essential to realise that this kind of work costs a lot of money and takes a lot of energy. Thinking about design and innovations isn\u2019t a hobby; nobody in the company does it as a sideline.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:<\/span> Do you think Germany\u2019s SME sector needs to become more digital?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> Yes and no. Everybody has to make their own mind up as to where their future business areas lie and what role they want digitalisation to play \u2013 resorting to action for action\u2019s sake just because you\u2019re worried doesn\u2019t amount to a concept. In my opinion, the biggest challenge is having to think in terms of two operating systems at the same time, because no company can afford to suddenly only pursue digital avenues from one moment to the next. It\u2019s important to seek, develop and test new business models parallel to one another, as well as to create the necessary cultural prerequisites within the corporate culture.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> Innovations can\u2019t be introduced overnight either. For a company like Telekom, it\u2019s a huge risk to suddenly redesign IT structures or experiment with business models and tariffs. The sums of money involved can easily go into the billions. That\u2019s a fundamental problem when you\u2019re dealing with big structures, but it\u2019s one that has to be solved in the long term. The only answer to disruptive business models like Uber and the like is to come up with compelling products and services yourself.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:<\/span> Are there any internationally successful digital products that are perceived as German?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> When apps or other digital products are successfulit doesn\u2019t matter whether they come from Tel Aviv, Mountain View or Berlin. In the 1990s, which saw the first phase of design management\u2019s professionalisation in Europe, cultural differences in product design were a major issue. Back then the US did a lot of designing for the European market, and they wanted to make sure they stayed on the consumer\u2019s wavelength. That way of thinking has become totally outdated. Nowadays, nations are dissolving in cyberspace. Consumer preferences all over the globe are becoming more and more similar \u2013 and that applies to digital products too. At the same time, digitality permits a huge variety of highly customised interfaces and user experiences.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> At the very most, people have different habits. You have to adapt the topics and content, but not the product structures. Take Red Bull\u2019s rollout of global digital products in 60 markets, for instance, which focused more on contexts and usage occasions than on differences between countries. And quite apart from the directions people read and swipe in, language is an issue too, of course: Swisscom has a special Swiss German voice control app for TV because Siri and Cortana don\u2019t work in Switzerland \u2013 they can\u2019t decipher the Swiss dialect. Otherwise, it\u2019s not so much the country you\u2019re designing for that\u2019s interesting as the attitude you adopt. My favourite comment on our relaunch for online newspaper NZZ.ch was this: It\u2019s the epitome of Swiss precision! Made in Germany ...<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> You\u2019re right, at the end of the day it\u2019s only your attitude that matters \u2013 and in Germany it just happens to be the case that our attitude has been influenced by the Ulm School of Design.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> It would be interesting to see what Ulm Plus looks like. I once read something really fascinating about German designer and art director Willy Fleckhaus \u2013 somebody who\u2019s always played an incredibly important role for me. Apparently, he learned his sense of order from Max Bill and his great sense of imagination from America\u2019s Alexey Brodovitch, the Russian-born art director of Harper\u2019s Bazaar. That\u2019s what I\u2019d like to see in future: it would be wonderful if we could combine our methodical instincts with imagination.<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 8,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 6\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"hr\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 9,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 7,\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p class=\\\"_Caption\\\">Interview published in designreport 6\/2017<br \/>Text: Martin\u00a0Krauter. Illustrations: Anni von Bergen<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 10,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 857\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"shortcode\",\r\n \"cont\": \"[shariff]\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 11,\r\n \"col\": 3,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 5,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 3,\r\n \"relid\": 8,\r\n \"shortcodeid\": 1585736411786,\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n }\r\n ]\r\n}","phonegrid":"{\r\n \"colCount\": 6,\r\n \"colGutter\": 1,\r\n \"rowGutters\": [\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 10,\r\n 5,\r\n 2.5\r\n ],\r\n \"frameMargin\": 5,\r\n \"topFrameMargin\": 5,\r\n \"bottomFrameMargin\": 30,\r\n \"rowAttrs\": [\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {\r\n \"bgcolor\": \"#343434\"\r\n },\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {},\r\n {}\r\n ],\r\n \"bgColor\": \"#f2f2f2\",\r\n \"cont\": [\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1.jpg\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 0,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 538,\r\n \"attid\": 294,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1.jpg\",\r\n \"_1920\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-1920x1280.jpg\",\r\n \"_1280\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-1280x854.jpg\",\r\n \"_1024\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-1024x683.jpg\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-768x512.jpg\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-512x341.jpg\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_1-1-265x177.jpg\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 2500,\r\n \"h\": 1667,\r\n \"ar\": 0.6668,\r\n \"alt\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<h1 class=\\\"_H1\\\">A different way of thinking<\/h1><h1 class=\\\"_H2\\\">Can classic German design values like durability, reliability, functionality and a systematic approach be transfered to digital product design? Does nationality actually still play any role at all in the digital era? The designreport discusses these and other questions with Christian Hanke, creative director at Edenspiekermann, and Philipp Thesen, head of design at Deutsche Telekom.<\/h1>\",\r\n \"align\": \"bottom\",\r\n \"row\": 1,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 4\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-Light-WebM;\\\">I think everybody has an idea of what German product design is. You immediately think of classic brands like Braun or BMW. We\u2019re here at a company that mainly offers services. Philipp, are Telekom\u2019s products actually even perceived as German in other countries?<br \/><br \/><\/span><\/span><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Philipp Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>It varies a lot. Internationally speaking, people have very positive associations with German design. Several years ago when we were defining the design language of the Telekom products and our entire digital experience, the question came up as to whether there are any specifically German aspects. Our company sells its products in 30 countries, but on the other hand our German origins are part of our brand identity. I\u2019ve always been interested in German design and I have to admit that, for a long time, I thought the kind of functionalism that came out of the Ulm School of Design was the global norm. But studying abroad made me realise that isn\u2019t the case everywhere. There are certain things international designers value as German attributes: a fundamentally systematic approach, a sustainability mindset and an aspiration to quality that isn\u2019t seen as luxury. But because of the Ulm School of Design\u2019s international influence, there\u2019s definitely something universal about those things too.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Christian Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>When we opened our Los Angeles office in 2015, the fact that we\u2019re a European agency, or more specifically a German one, was an important sales argument \u2013 like a quality label. Our founder Erik Spiekermann, who represents precisely those classic attributes, is very wellknown over there, and that was a big help. Thesen: On the other hand there are plenty of high-profile designers from Germany who disappear behind their work; that\u2019s not the case in a country like Italy or France.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>On the other hand, there are many distinguished designers from Germany who disappear behind their work, unlike in Italy or France, for example.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke: <\/span>Do you think that\u2019s typically German?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>I don\u2019t know, but I studied in Milan and Helsinki. In Italy, designers like to foster a personality cult to some extent. And although people in Scandinavia tend to keep a very low profile, designer branding plays a more important role than it does here. Both those countries have strong design companies with artisanal roots. In Germany, design is more likely to have its breeding grounds in industry, and chief design officers like Gorden Wagener of Mercedes-Benz have only recently started to have a public presence. Even so, German designers are often still invisible ghosts: the things they create are enjoyed by people all over the world, but their authorship tends to remain a mystery.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>Philipp, how have the design qualities that you identified as typically German been translated into Telekom\u2019s digital products? Can that kind of thing be expressed in a concrete way?<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"bottom\",\r\n \"row\": 2,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 500\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 3,\r\n \"col\": 1,\r\n \"colspan\": 4,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 1,\r\n \"relid\": 3716,\r\n \"attid\": 439,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-768x1024.jpg\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-512x683.jpg\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_2_hell-265x353.jpg\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 813,\r\n \"h\": 1084,\r\n \"ar\": 1.3333333333333333,\r\n \"alt\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>We took a very functional approach right from the outset. The realisation that the digital experience mainly concerns innovations in hardware, software and services has only really caught on over the last few years \u2013 it\u2019s important to remember that. Prior to that, \u201cdigital\u201d mainly meant websites and apps, it was all about entertainment. And the functional aspect was often merely expressed in the form of functionalistic references, like the interfaces of the early Apple products: although their style was reminiscent of Dieter Rams, they weren\u2019t designed in the same spirit at all.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>The calculator by Dietrich Lubs is the classic example: its look was simply copied ... Surely that\u2019s got something to do with the fact that digital products are inherently less tangible than hardware products, wouldn\u2019t you say?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Do you really think so? I think it\u2019s just that it took us a few years to learn what a digital look and feel is. We designers were still pretty clumsy to start with. It took time to understand just how important things like transitions and performance or language and tonality really are for a digital product experience.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>That\u2019s exactly what I mean. The tendency to reference earlier designs resulted from a certain degree of helplessness.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>Or to put it another way, from the necessity to get the user to make the connection. That\u2019s how icons like the floppy disk as a symbol for \u201csave\u201d came about, or the use of imitation leather in the calendar app for that matter. None of that\u2019s necessary anymore and we can be more mature in how we design, thank God!<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>The digital sphere is a totally new realm of experience \u2013 in a literal sense too. It\u2019s no coincidence that most digital applications tended to be created by industrial designers to start with. Ten years ago, we mainly employed industrial designers too: they think more three-dimensionally, which enables them to negotiate navigation structures better. Graphic designers found that difficult to start with; they concentrated more on the interface.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport: <\/span>To some extent, the importance of design classics can be attributed to insecurity too: when consumers aren\u2019t sure what\u2019s good, they tend to fall back on classics. Does that apply to the digital sphere too? Can tried-and-tested designs become classics?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>No, it\u2019s a different way of thinking. Obviously there are metaphors or a certain aesthetic that reflect the corresponding zeitgeist. Take Wikipedia, for instance: on the whole, it will probably stay just the way it is for ever. But does that make it a design classic? Or do sites like that belong in the museum?<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>No \u2013 with the possible exception of Spiegel Online\u2019s first news site! (Laughter) But that\u2019s precisely the point: digitality fundamentally changes a designer\u2019s relationship to their work and, by extension, their self-image. For a long time, designers dreamed of creating things that would end up in the museum and outlive them as icons for posterity. That\u2019s simply not possible in the case of products that are relaunched what feels like 600 times a day on the basis of user research and iteration. Which isn\u2019t to say that certain digital applications don\u2019t deserve to be considered outstanding in the context of their time.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:\u00a0<\/span>The first iPhone OS is one such time capsule!<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:\u00a0<\/span>Yes, or important paradigm shifts like Apple\u2019s Lisa \u2013 the birth of the graphical user interface! But nobody would want to fall back on that kind of thing just because they feel insecure \u2013 it\u2019s not the same as buying an Eames Chair because you can\u2019t go wrong with it. Perhaps digital design will follow in the footsteps of the invisible industrial designer.<br \/>.<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"bottom\",\r\n \"row\": 4,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 5\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 5,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 3717,\r\n \"attid\": 440,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell.jpg\",\r\n \"_1280\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-1280x854.jpg\",\r\n \"_1024\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-1024x683.jpg\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-768x512.jpg\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-512x341.jpg\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_3_hell-265x177.jpg\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 1348,\r\n \"h\": 899,\r\n \"ar\": 0.6669139465875371,\r\n \"alt\": \"\",\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 6,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 581\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"img\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5.png\",\r\n \"align\": \"bottom\",\r\n \"row\": 7,\r\n \"col\": 1,\r\n \"colspan\": 4,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 10,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 10,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 1,\r\n \"relid\": 325,\r\n \"attid\": 265,\r\n \"sizes\": {\r\n \"full\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5.png\",\r\n \"_1920\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1920x1402.png\",\r\n \"_1280\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1280x934.png\",\r\n \"_1024\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-1024x748.png\",\r\n \"_768\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-768x561.png\",\r\n \"_512\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-512x374.png\",\r\n \"_265\": \"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/Philipp_Thesen_Interview_andere_Denke_5-265x193.png\"\r\n },\r\n \"w\": 2000,\r\n \"h\": 1460,\r\n \"ar\": 0.73,\r\n \"alt\": \"\",\r\n \"caption\": \"<p class=\\\"_Caption\\\"><span style=\\\"color: #e8e8e8;\\\"><span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-Medium-WebM;\\\"><br \/>Krautter, Martin:<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\\\"font-family: SuisseIntl-MediumItalic-WebM;\\\">Another way of thinking<br \/><\/span><\/span><span style=\\\"color: #e8e8e8;\\\">designreport, Issue 6\/2017 (S. 48 \u2013 52)<\/span><\/p>\",\r\n \"frameOverflow\": \"\"\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> The design discipline needs to play a much bigger role when it comes to mediating between humans, technology and business interests. That means taking an interdisciplinary stance and having a prolific, multifaceted cultural knowledge. But the German perspective soon turns out to have a pretty limited horizon.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Designreport:<\/span> Let\u2019s talk about design thinking: how compatible is its methodology with German corporate cultures?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> We\u2019ve had very different experiences across various sectors and markets. I once had a kind of eureka moment when somebody reminded me of Maslow and his hierarchy of needs in this context. Self-actualisation only comesat the very tip of the pyramid. That means as long as people\u2019s \u201cdeficiency needs\u201d aren\u2019t met, as long as they don\u2019t know how safe their job is or what role they play within the organisation, or if they\u2019ve never experienced what it feels like to achieve something together with their colleagues, they won\u2019t be able to give any thought to innovations. Then there\u2019s absolutely no point in holding innovation workshops and handing out colourful post-its for people to scribble their ideas on. It just won\u2019t work.<\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\"><br \/>Designreport:<\/span> Fair enough, but that\u2019s not a specifically German problem. Or is it perhaps a problem for the SME sector, which is particularly strong in Germany?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> It\u2019s more a question of how professionally a company approaches the topic of innovation and how influential design is within an organisation. It\u2019s essential to realise that this kind of work costs a lot of money and takes a lot of energy. Thinking about design and innovations isn\u2019t a hobby; nobody in the company does it as a sideline.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:<\/span> Do you think Germany\u2019s SME sector needs to become more digital?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> Yes and no. Everybody has to make their own mind up as to where their future business areas lie and what role they want digitalisation to play \u2013 resorting to action for action\u2019s sake just because you\u2019re worried doesn\u2019t amount to a concept. In my opinion, the biggest challenge is having to think in terms of two operating systems at the same time, because no company can afford to suddenly only pursue digital avenues from one moment to the next. It\u2019s important to seek, develop and test new business models parallel to one another, as well as to create the necessary cultural prerequisites within the corporate culture.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> Innovations can\u2019t be introduced overnight either. For a company like Telekom, it\u2019s a huge risk to suddenly redesign IT structures or experiment with business models and tariffs. The sums of money involved can easily go into the billions. That\u2019s a fundamental problem when you\u2019re dealing with big structures, but it\u2019s one that has to be solved in the long term. The only answer to disruptive business models like Uber and the like is to come up with compelling products and services yourself.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Designreport:<\/span> Are there any internationally successful digital products that are perceived as German?<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> When apps or other digital products are successfulit doesn\u2019t matter whether they come from Tel Aviv, Mountain View or Berlin. In the 1990s, which saw the first phase of design management\u2019s professionalisation in Europe, cultural differences in product design were a major issue. Back then the US did a lot of designing for the European market, and they wanted to make sure they stayed on the consumer\u2019s wavelength. That way of thinking has become totally outdated. Nowadays, nations are dissolving in cyberspace. Consumer preferences all over the globe are becoming more and more similar \u2013 and that applies to digital products too. At the same time, digitality permits a huge variety of highly customised interfaces and user experiences.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> At the very most, people have different habits. You have to adapt the topics and content, but not the product structures. Take Red Bull\u2019s rollout of global digital products in 60 markets, for instance, which focused more on contexts and usage occasions than on differences between countries. And quite apart from the directions people read and swipe in, language is an issue too, of course: Swisscom has a special Swiss German voice control app for TV because Siri and Cortana don\u2019t work in Switzerland \u2013 they can\u2019t decipher the Swiss dialect. Otherwise, it\u2019s not so much the country you\u2019re designing for that\u2019s interesting as the attitude you adopt. My favourite comment on our relaunch for online newspaper NZZ.ch was this: It\u2019s the epitome of Swiss precision! Made in Germany ...<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Thesen:<\/span> You\u2019re right, at the end of the day it\u2019s only your attitude that matters \u2013 and in Germany it just happens to be the case that our attitude has been influenced by the Ulm School of Design.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><span class=\\\"_Copy_Medium\\\">Hanke:<\/span> It would be interesting to see what Ulm Plus looks like. I once read something really fascinating about German designer and art director Willy Fleckhaus \u2013 somebody who\u2019s always played an incredibly important role for me. Apparently, he learned his sense of order from Max Bill and his great sense of imagination from America\u2019s Alexey Brodovitch, the Russian-born art director of Harper\u2019s Bazaar. That\u2019s what I\u2019d like to see in future: it would be wonderful if we could combine our methodical instincts with imagination.<\/p>\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 8,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 6\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"hr\",\r\n \"cont\": \"\",\r\n \"align\": \"top\",\r\n \"row\": 9,\r\n \"col\": 0,\r\n \"colspan\": 6,\r\n \"offsetx\": 0,\r\n \"offsety\": 0,\r\n \"spaceabove\": 0,\r\n \"spacebelow\": 0,\r\n \"yvel\": 1,\r\n \"push\": 0,\r\n \"relid\": 9\r\n },\r\n {\r\n \"type\": \"text\",\r\n \"cont\": \"<p class=\\\"_Caption\\\">Interview published in designreport 6\/2017<br \/>Text: Martin\u00a0Krauter. 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